Passing Cantonese on to my kids without being fully proficient myself?

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How I learned Cantonese:

I learned Cantonese speaking it with my mother, who is originally from HK, growing up in Germany with my dad not being a non-Cantonese speaker. I never had any formal education in Cantonese. My pronunciation is pretty good, but my vocabulary seems stuck at the level of a 6-year old due to lack of speaking with other Cantonese speakers on a regular basis (apart from holidays in HK visiting family). I also learned Mandarin as a teenager, but haven’t really used it in the last 20 years so it got VERY rusty. I can read some simplified and some traditional characters (kinda enough to know what I’m ordering in a restaurant) but I’m FAR from being proficient in any way. In short, I can have rather simple conversations about my last holiday, the weather, food etc. without people noticing that I’m not a native speaker (unless they see me as I look more European than Asian!) but I would struggle in any professional context or listening to more formal Cantonese.

Current situation with kids:

Now that I’m in my mid thirties and have two kids (3yo and 4 months old), my partner (who is also German) and I naturally speak German at home. We live in a French-speaking country so they’ll grow up speaking both languages. Apart from the odd Chinese word, I haven’t taught them (well, not the baby of course) any Cantonese. I think this is mainly due to laziness on my part since I need to make a conscious effort to speak it whereas German is just natural for us at home. Another reason is lack of confidence as I’m not a fully proficient speaker myself.

I’ll take the family to HK early next year - my first trip to HK in 7 years. It made me think about whether I should make more of an effort to pass on Cantonese to them - but I have doubts whether my Cantonese is good enough plus the natural convenience of speaking German amidst our busy lives with work and all the stress that young parents have! However, it feels like a wasted opportunity to help them speak another language which I think helps in so many ways (I have a an entirely unfounded hypothesis about more neural connections the more unrelated languages one speaks!) - and not least to preserve Cantonese.

Sorry for such a long post but I was keen to provide some context. I’d love to hear any thoughts and perhaps someone has been in a similar situation.

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Gonna be tough. Even the kids of my HK friends from college who settled in the states don’t speak Cantonese much.

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I am CBC but grew up speaking Cantonese at home but am probably about the same level of proficiency as you. With English and French being the official languages here, I still tried to pass Cantonese down to my kids and made a conscious effort to speak it as much as possible to them. My kids (7 and 10) can pretty much understand basic Cantonese but only reply to me in English. They’re learning French at school.

I tried to go with the “One Parent One Language” method, although my husband can understand but not speak Cantonese.

My kids also attend Chinese school (2.5h on weekends) which is closer to glorified babysitting, but as they can understand basic Cantonese, I take it all as a win.

4

Totally understand your heart. I just became a parent recently, and now suddenly the sense of my heritage/language/culture has come to me. I am ethnically Chinese but born and raised in Canada, so Chinese is definitely not my mother tongue.

I agree with the comments that it will depend on your intention and learning, but take heart, some basic children’s vocabulary is simple and easy to integrate!

Thankfully, a lot of baby/toddler things are simple language “Time for breakfast/lunch/dinner/sleep,” “do you want more? Full? Enough?” so it’s possible. Simple instructions I will say it in Cantonese and immediately in English after, so baby is hearing both. I guess you’ll have to flip a coin between French and German :wink:

Get your parents involved, now there are a lot of bilingual English/Chinese books, and again the toddler/infant books have very simple vocabulary. You can do some searching to get bilingual children’s books, and since I can’t read much Chinese I find ones with jyutping so I can sound it out and know the correct tone.

Here’s some online examples:

You can also listen to Cantonese lessons in your headphones, and repeat out the words so your children get some exposure (or playing HK pop music, etc)

Here I recently a really good beginner guy on youtube, he just describes some everyday life but does it so slowly I can repeat his phrases back aloud: https://youtube.com/@mankicantonese1066?si=2nVQ_mq2HZBMGKeH

5

Send them to HK for a summer. Kids pick up languages like sponges

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just speak cantonese all the time with them and make them reply with cantonese only with you when they grown older.
they will naturally pick up german and france from school and from your partner.

my friend that teach cantonese have meet to many children that don’t know how to speak or are very bad because they don’t speak or use it at home.

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Well, how does any kid become proficient in a language if their parent is not proficient themselves?

Children learn language from their environment - formally in school, informally from everything else. There are a lot of immigrants who have a language barrier with their children. That’s usually the number one reason for these children to learn the language - to connect with their family.

If you don’t speak the language, and your children are not going to speak Cantonese at home or school or work, it doesn’t really make sense to take the focus away from German, which both parents speak and can reinforce at home.

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I’m not an expert on this because I don’t have kids.

First step, look around to see if there are classes geared towards kids that you can join together? In person learning is still the best way but this is assuming you live close enough to a Chinese cultural centre or business that offers something like that.

Is your mother near you? My family are heritage speakers of varying ability and their in laws are quite involved with the kids. It feels like the kids are picking up canto faster than their parents :joy:

The best way to learn with kids is via osmosis and watching tv shows together is a good way to start. There’s a canto dub of peppa pig (link below). maybe when you visit HK you can try to buy more episodes of other cartoons? It’s okay to focus on speaking and not worry too much about about reading and writing. A lot of heritage speakers I know speak really well but cannot read/write.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLakSiSnj_sRh0XBQ9OOjTfCnGC-7H3Zo9

I enjoy a lot of canto content from these ladies:
https://www.instagram.com/outcastsfromthe853 they’re incredibly funny and sometimes comedy is the best way to learn anything, they run an online course as well.

9

I would get Disney plus and lock it on Cantonese so they can only watch in that language. My family spoke only Chinese at home, yet I already knew some English prior to enrolling in pre-school. This was all thanks the loads of tv I watched as a kid. I’m convinced you can do the same with your kids.

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I think the key thing here is looking at this more constructively. They’ll be learning 3 languages to a decent level (German, French, English if I’ve judged the situation correctly). Giving them some Cantonese, even the rudiments of vocabulary, pronunciation, and grammar, can only be a positive thing. For one, if they ever feel the need to learn other related languages e.g. Mandarin they will probably find it much easier with this foundation. Second of all, more importantly in my opinion, they will have an important connection to their heritage which they can choose to build if they wish, which can only be healthy when it comes to building an identity.

I feel that Cantonese speakers are often incredibly harsh about diaspora children not speaking the language perfectly or at a decent enough level. You are the product of your circumstances and should not feel guilt for things out of your control. You can do only what you can!

More practically, as a child of two parents who made a deliberate choice of speaking English to me as my primary language when neither were fluent, it’s all about persistence. Force yourself to only speak Cantonese to them, have Cantonese TV in the background/buy or stream Cantonese language shows. If possible try to have as much exposure to HK relatives as you can. Explore options for Cantonese-language classes either in person or online.

It would be unlikely that they turn out with the fluency of a native speaker living in HK, but then again that’s not who they are. Even if they turn out only understanding Cantonese partially though you can still consider that as something you have given them that nobody else could have and that nobody can take from them.

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I was on vacation a few weeks ago and there was a guy who I could tell was far from fluent and was giving his kids a teaching moment in chingish.

The kid still seemed to understand the dad so I think you’ll be more than fine

12

Maybe hire a Cantonese nanny or babysitter? I dod this and my child became proficient by the time she went to school.

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Please check out this channel, it might help your kids to learn cantonese. https://www.youtube.com/@yinogo1/videos

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Get a Cantonese tutor for yourself and your kids.

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It will be difficult, but I think worth pursuing. I’m a heritage speaker (biracial) and am not even close to fluent or proficient in Cantonese. I married my husband who is white, and our kids will only be 1/4 Chinese. However I fully plan on attempting to teach them Cantonese. Whether that be through me, my mom, or a tutor… mandarin is obviously more useful, but Cantonese is slowly dying and I think it’s the responsibly of us who have it as a heritage language to keep it going.

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Very recognisable situation, it’s definitely not easy. I’ve been speaking Cantonese to my kids ever since their birth. Pre-school is the easiest time to do that. As soon as they go to school, they will start to speak more of the local language.

The main reason to teach them Cantonese imo is identity. They may grow up feeling German or French and have zero interest in Cantonese. But when they do, they’ll have a base to go off of. My brother in law never got to learn Cantonese as his sisters did. He understands it, but doesnt speak it. When he dated a Cantonese girl, he was regretful that he couldnt speak it.

Some things you could do:

Just start talking to them in Cantonese. Your level should be profient enough for the basics. You could also do bi or trilingual, like 牛奶/Milch/lait.

Start with yourself. Try to find something that interests you. Watch some channels in Cantonese, watch Cantonese shows (Disney+ has Pixar movies in Cantonese), listen to some hkpop. Once you develop an interest again, it’s easier for you to bring it over to your kids.

There are Cantonese podcasts on Youtube and Spotify. This one aims for children for example:

This one is more of an educational channel

Or this one on Youtube, talks about 18+ stuff :laughing: relationships, love and sex
https://youtube.com/@hksexandlove?si=pezetgdCDmsYArvw

There’s a ton of English/Cantonese books with jyutping out there nowadays (you’ll find them on Amazon). Buy a few and read them together. Or you could read the German/French books in Cantonese. Just you the illustrations as a basis and tell your version of the story in Cantonese. You may not know the exact translation, but just use your proficiency and say it in your own words. They’ll appreciate it!

I teach Cantonese at the local Chinese school here. I teach to adults, many are Westerners who have a Cantonese-speaking partner. Some are like you who speak at a basic level, but want to hone their skills or pick it up again. I’ve also taught two boys who live in Belgium (the Dutch speaking part), but go to an international school where they learn English and French, while their mum speeks Cantonese to them haha.

The struggle is real, especially in an environment with not a large Cantonese or Chinese community. But I think it’s worth the effort if you really feel a connection with the language.

17

Feels totally fine to be imperfect. In fact it’s probably better. Kids learning from their parents that they’re imperfect and can make mistakes is probably healthy as well. Main factor I feel you have to worry about is if you can keep up the motivation - helps a lot if you have support, e.g. from your partner, local Cantonese communities/schools, etc.

Speaking of support: Lazy way to expose them to Cantonese: Disney+ has a lot of cantonese content (ideally VPN’d into the U.S., as the US Disney+ has even more Cantonese content).

(Also I agree with you on multilingualism having more cognitive and empathetic benefits for kids.)

18

Your Cantonese is good enough, any exposure is good. Not just in terms of speaking to them but also via TV shows, movies, music, etc. Maybe expose them to like dubbed children anime like Doraemon or Dragon Ball. Or comedic movies like ones with Stephen Chow. Don’t worry about your proficiency and just expose them to the language.

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If you’re kids are half German and are going to be living in Germany (or switzerland/france) then beyond what they learn from you and the internet what’s the big deal? I live in HK - Cantonese in hong kong and the diaspora isn’t dying out - why do people seriously think this?

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Some parents will establish a language schedule so that each day is reserved for only one language. I grew up with the rule that we can only speak Cantonese at the dinner table, otherwise we don’t get to eat. Others will have a parent that only speaks one language (I find this very challenging)

I have 2 toddlers and I feel the same struggle because it’s much easier speaking English at home. My youngest (2) is pretty good with maintaining Cantonese because my mom watches her two days a week. I’m trying to revive that capability with my oldest (4) by sprinkling in Cantonese throughout the day. He had a phase where he asked “can you speak the way I speak?”. But I kept with it and now he’s showing better understanding and even will speak some if I ask him to. I just have to be more consistent about it.

These Hambaanglaang books https://hambaanglaang.hk/ have been really good. It’s helped me learn more words: speaking, reading jyutping, reading characters, tones. I also learned Mandarin in my teens, but the way they present jyutping, tones, and characters was an effective way for me to learn more Cantonese as well. The printed book set is kind of pricey, but they’re all available in PDF for free. They also have associated YouTube videos for the stories.